October 19, 2004

Guantanamo detainees: human rights are not negotiable

Join the discussion about the war on terror and detainees at Guantanamo Bay by participating in this Amnesty International/Moving Ideas Network online chat.

Don't miss this opportunity to ask questions online of Jumana Musa, Amnesty International's Advocacy Director for Domestic Human Rights and International Justice. Ms. Musa attended the preliminary hearings in the cases of four Guantánamo Bay detainees facing trial by military commission that occurred in August.

Featured Guest: Jumana Musa

From our featured guest: "Thank you to everyone who submitted questions."

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Question Submitted by Ashley:

Thank you for participating in this forum. I have read many reports that prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and in Iraq are oftentimes simply men that were at the wrong place at the wrong time. The common assumption in the United States is that these prisoners are enemies who will stop at nothing to kill us. But could many of them be perfectly innocent men who were indiscriminately rounded up in military sweeps? Thank you.

Jumana Musa answers:

It is entirely possible that many of these men are innocent and were swept up in raids. The US was paying people from the Northwen Alliance to hand over members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, giving Afghan warlords financial incentive to turn people over. This fact coupled with the fact that no detainee was ever reviewed by a competent tribunal as is required by the Geneva Conventions to determine whether they were engaged in hostilities or a civilian caught up in the confusion, that likelihood increases.

There have been statements from government officials stating that the majority of people held in Guantanamo Bay are not high value detainees as was once claimed but of low intelligence value and no threat to US security. By ignoring the Geneva Convetions in this instance, the US has created a situation where hundreds of innocent men may be detained indefinitely with no independent review.
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Question Submitted by paul:

Whatis the answer to those who say...."principles are ok except when the national security is at stake .....it is better to hold some innocent persons in jail than to free them and risk some dangerous persons getting out?

Jumana Musa answers:

Amensty International has always stood firm on the fact that adherence to the rule of law and respect for human rights is the best way to provide security. There is no question that it is every government's duty to protect it's citizens from attacks, whether they are attacks from other countries or armed groups. However, ignoring long standing international law and US policy creates an atmosphere of lawlessness. In addition, casting the net wide without regards to accuracy only stretches law enforcement resources and does not increase security.
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Question Submitted by LarryE:

When will the suspects either be charged or released -- any guess?

Jumana Musa answers:

There is no way to know when or if suspects will be released from Guantanamo. Approxiamtely 200 have been released so far, some to further detention in their home coutnries and some are free. There is concern that detainees were transferred to custody in countries with a known record or torture like Morocco, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. All but 1 were released outside of any official process, and detainees have been tranferred to Gauntanamo as recently as September.

To date only four people have been cahrged with any crime, and the majority of those detained will likely never be charged.
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Question Submitted by Steven Schaaf:

The classification of prisoners as "Enemy Combatants", is an obvious attempt to circumvent the Geneva convention and the U.C.M.J. Does congress have jurisdiction over the classification of international prisoners, and could reclassification thru congress affect how the Prisoners and their captors are dealt with under the U.C.M.J.

Jumana Musa answers:

The Administration has used the term "enemy combatant" as a clear attempt to circumvent protections provided to prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention and due to all detainees under international law. In June, the Supreme Court rejected the notion that the US can hold people without any rights or ability to challenge their detention in US courts. However, lawyers filing cases on behalf of detainees in Guantanamo have reported government delays in the case as well as in meeting their clients in Guantanamo.
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Question Submitted by ntumba:

Ms. Musa, according to your own analysis, do you think if reelected the pressure put on bush over the Guantanamo issue will have any positive impact since bush has vowed to fight terrorism?

Jumana Musa answers:

It is critical that grass roots pressure on the US administration to comply with its obligatinos under international human rights and humanitarian law, along with governemnts around the world. Regardless of who is elected president in November, the issue of detentions in Guantanamo and elsewhere will not be resolved overnight with a change in administration. Bringing US security policy in line with human rights and the rule of law will be an ongoing struggle for either a Bush or Kerry administration.
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Question Submitted by Ruth:

I heard Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker say in an interview on PBS the other night that if we think the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq were terrible, we would be even more shocked by what's happening to prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. Can you tell us more about the condition of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay and what is being done to protect their rights and publicize their situation more in U.S. and the world? Thanks!

Jumana Musa answers:

Although Amnesty International was granted access to observe the military commissions in progress at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, no Amnesty International representative has ever been granted access to the detention facilities there. Amnesty has interviewed detainees who have been released, and those interviews, along with several public reports by former detainees, all detail torture and ill treatment in custody.

The situation was of such concern to the Red Cross that the organization publically announced its concerns about the treatment of detainees, a rare move for the organization which usually keeps its its findings confidential.
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Question Submitted by Tristen:

How can we expect American detainees to be treated fairly and humanely if we are not 'practicing what we preach'?

Jumana Musa answers:

This is an ongoing concern for Amnesty International. When the US as the world's sole superpower sets the example of removing accepted protections such as the Geneva Conventions, it give the green light to other governments to do the same. It also weakens the US's ability to stand up for their soldiers and citizens who are picked up and held without rights.

When US soldiers were captured by Iraqi troops, President Bush immediately demanded that they be treated humanely and in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, as should be expected. However, numerous memos justifying torture and belittling the Geneva conventions from the highest levels of government in addition to the photos that emerged from Abu Ghraib have undermined the US's ability to stand up for its own soldiers and citizens around the world.
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Question Submitted by Lucia Brawley:

What steps are being taken to ensure that Rule of Law exists within the prison walls and that non-terrorists get a fair trial?

Jumana Musa answers:

Unfettered access to detention centers by human rights and humanitarian organizations is the best protection against abuses in custody. Unfortunately, no independent human rights group has ever had access to any US detention facility overseas, and the Red Cross has complained that their access has been restricted and that they have not been able to visit all detainees in US custody.

In addition to lack of access, foreign nationals can be charged with crimes and tried before a military commission that is not based on international law, US federal law or the Uniform Code of Military Justice. These commissions, created by executive order, have been criticized by human rights organizations and legal experts around the world as lacking in due process and not meeting minimum international fair trial standards.
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Question Submitted by Tasche:

Is anything known about the health of those being held in Guantanamo?

Jumana Musa answers:

Very little information is available about the health of those detained in Guantanamo. The most frequesnt complaint, cited by the Red Cross among others, is concern about the deterioration of the mental health of detainees subject to indefinite detention without charge. In addition, there has been a number of suicide attempts, but that number dropped significantly when the military began reclassifying such attempts as "manipulative self injurious behavior." Finally, there have been allegations that detainees' medical record were being used to identify weaknesses during interrogations.
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Question Submitted by Shabnaz Y:

Could you talk a little bit about how the US justifies its' Human Rights violations around the world during this fragile "War on Terror" era?

Jumana Musa answers:

The administration has often pitted human rights against security in the name of protecting the nation. However, there are many indications that denying rights has not increased safety. The State Department reported that the number of terrorist attacks around the world has increased in the past year. Recently, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan stated that US policies that ignore human rights have made the world less stable and less secure then it was before.

Amnesty International continues to call on the Bush administration to respect human rights and the rule of law when acting to protect its citizens.
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Question Submitted by Faisal:

Ms. Musa, What can individuals do to learn more about the treatment of the prisoners (besides the biased information that we get from the media)? Also, what can individuals do to promote awareness of this issue, and hopefully help rectify the situation?

Jumana Musa answers:

Individuals can learn more about the treatment of prisoners in US custody by reports on the website of Amnesty International and other human rights organizations. In addition, in many of the countries where detainees come from, organizations have emerged to advocate on their behalf.

To promote awareness of the issue, people can write letters to US officials, hold public forums and invite speakers from your community who promote human rights and humane treatment of detainees.
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Question Submitted by Diana:

Are there any procedures in place to make sure innoncent people aren't being held at GitMo?

Jumana Musa answers:

After the Supreme Court ruled that detainees held in Guantanamo Bay had the right to challenge their detention in US courts, the administration set up "Combatant Status Review Tribunals," or CSRTs, intended to determine whether or not a detainee is an "enemy combatant." The process is deeply flawed in that the detainee has no defense counsel, information obtained by torture or by other detainees held in Guantanamo or elsewhere is admissible and unchallengeable, CSRTs proceed whether or not the detainee participates, and the process has been riddled with translation problems.

As of October 18, 2004, 183 CSRTs have been held and 96 have been certified by the appointing authority. To date, 95 have been determined to be "enemy combatants" and one was sent home to Pakistan. The four detainees currently facing charges before the military commission have also had their cases heard by the CSRTs. If the CSRT determines that they are "enemy combatants," they can been held indefinitely even if cleared of all charges before the military commission.
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Question Submitted by Diana:

Are there any people under 21 being held at GitMo? If so are they treated the same as the older, possible more rough detainees?

Jumana Musa answers:

It is not certain how many detainees under the age of 21 are held in Guantanamo, but it is known that two under the age of 18 are still in custody. Detainees are held in similar circumstances depending on their cooperation, but no distinction is made by age.

There were detainees brought to Guantanamo as young as thriteen years old. After being held with the other prisoners for some time, Camp Iguana was established as a separate facility for those under the age of fifteen. All detainees under the age of fifteen have since been released.
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Question Submitted by Brenda:

Have you gained any solid information about the allegations of torture, now confirmed by former employees at Guantanamo Prison, of detainees?

Jumana Musa answers:

Amnesty International has interviewed several detainees released from Guantanamo Bay and has documented numerous accounts of torture and ill-treatment in custody. These accounts are contained in various AI reports on detainees in Guantanamo Bay and have been forwarded to the US adminstration.
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Question Submitted by Brenda:

How best can the world hold the US to account for its treatment of detainees at Guantanamo while the Iraqi conflict is continuing?

Jumana Musa answers:

The best way to hold the US accountable for its treatment of detainees in Guantanamo and elsewhere is to establish an independent commission to investigate all allegations of abuse that has the power to pursue this investigation at all levels of the military and civilian leadership. Only when there is a thorough and truly independent investigation can we begin to address accountability.

In addition, Amnesty International continues to request access to all detainees in US custody and calls on the US government to recommit itself to its international human rights and humanitarian obligations.
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Question Submitted by Tilo:

If I understand it correctly, the only indictments to date for detainees of Guantanomo are for "conspiracy to commit war crimes". At the same time, the administration claims that these are not prisoners of war (thereby denying them any rights under the Geneva Convention). Is this not a fundamental contradiction, or am I missing something?

Jumana Musa answers:

A person can be accused of committing war crimes even if they are not a lawful combatant. This being said, the detainees facing military commissions in Guantanamo are not being tried under international or US law, but a system that is being constructed as it progresses.

Currently, three detainees are being charged with conspircay to: attack civilians, attack civilian objects, commit murder by an unprivileged belligerent, destruction of property by an unprivileged belligerent and terrorism. In addition, one detainee is also charged with attempted murder by an unprivileged belligerent and aiding the enemy. All charges are made pursuant to the President's Executive Order of November, 2001 and are not necessarily crimes under other legal systems.
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